Movement roles in Wikimania

[Harel Cain]

Hi all,

I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until
after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(

As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now
drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania.
I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles
process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.

It's not too late to fix that.

What do you suggest?


Harel Cain
Wikimania 2011 local team

[Lodewijk]

Hi Harel,

we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one)
and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should
try to get a discussion session on the schedule.
Personal opinion:
A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we could
discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or otherwise we
could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very helpful to give
people insight on what it all means and where it goes.

Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters
meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on
Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the
non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any
questions.

Best,

Lodewijk

Post by Harel Cain
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until
after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now
drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania.
I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles
process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain
Wikimania 2011 local team
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Theo10011]

Lodewijk as I recall, we couldn't settle on when or what to focus the
discussion on. I definitely agree we need a session/discussion related to
MR, it's one of the few occasions we can get a face-to-face discussion with
the concerned parties.

We also have to expect that if open up the floor with what we have now, it
would be a barrage of conflicting opinions. We need something presentable
and ready, to go off of first. There is a lot of things the group itself
can't agree on.

Theo

Post by Lodewijk
Hi Harel,
we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one)
and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should
try to get a discussion session on the schedule.
A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we could
discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or otherwise we
could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very helpful to give
people insight on what it all means and where it goes.
Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters
meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on
Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the
non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any
questions.
Best,
Lodewijk

Post by Harel Cain
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid
until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now
drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania.
I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles
process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain
Wikimania 2011 local team
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Harel Cain]

As I'm also about to draft some simple and workable discussion group
schedule for the chapter's meeting day, we could fit in something there
(more in discussion form) and something for the main conference (more in
presentation form).
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to
answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of
people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations,
charter etc. are second in priority to that.

Harel

Post by Theo10011
Lodewijk as I recall, we couldn't settle on when or what to focus the
discussion on. I definitely agree we need a session/discussion related to
MR, it's one of the few occasions we can get a face-to-face discussion with
the concerned parties.
We also have to expect that if open up the floor with what we have now, it
would be a barrage of conflicting opinions. We need something presentable
and ready, to go off of first. There is a lot of things the group itself
can't agree on.
Theo

Post by Lodewijk
Hi Harel,
we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one)
and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should
try to get a discussion session on the schedule.
A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we
could discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or
otherwise we could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very
helpful to give people insight on what it all means and where it goes.
Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters
meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on
Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the
non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any
questions.
Best,
Lodewijk

Post by Harel Cain
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid
until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now
drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania.
I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles
process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain
Wikimania 2011 local team
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Bishakha Datta]

Post by Harel Cain
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to
answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of
people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations,
charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the

draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.

It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready -
a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.

Cheers
Bishakha

[Béria Lima]

Not really Bishakha.

Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have
any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of
what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.

Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can say
somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to
people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater.
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer.***

Post by Bishakha Datta

Post by Harel Cain
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need
to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of
people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations,
charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the

draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.
It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready -
a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.
Cheers
Bishakha
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Bishakha Datta]

Post by Béria Lima
Not really Bishakha.
Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have
any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of
what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.
Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can say
somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to
people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater.

I'm in favour of presenting both, rather than an either-or.

Cheers
Bishakha

[Theo10011]

I agree with Beria and Harel. Any idea who should present an introduction to
MR?

Theo

Post by Bishakha Datta

Post by Béria Lima
Not really Bishakha.
Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have
any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of
what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.
Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can
say somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to
people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater.

I'm in favour of presenting both, rather than an either-or.
Cheers
Bishakha
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Samuel Klein]

Perhaps we can have this discussion on Meta:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project#MR_at_Wikimania

Let's separate the question of how we describe and break down movement
roles as a project, from how we make good use of everyone's time
together at this session. For the 'chapters day' one issue raised at
our meeting was: will this be open to all movement groups [including
proposed chapters, proposed partner orgs, and other participants in MR
discussions], or only to chapters? If we are going to discuss things
like the charter, it would be helpful to have the broader audience
there.

SJ

Post by Harel Cain

Post by Harel Cain
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need
to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of
people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations,
charter etc. are second in priority to that.

Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the
draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.
It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready -
a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.
Cheers
Bishakha
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Galileo Vidoni]

Post by Samuel Klein
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project#MR_at_Wikimania
Let's separate the question of how we describe and break down movement
roles as a project, from how we make good use of everyone's time
together at this session. For the 'chapters day' one issue raised at
our meeting was: will this be open to all movement groups [including
proposed chapters, proposed partner orgs, and other participants in MR
discussions], or only to chapters? If we are going to discuss things
like the charter, it would be helpful to have the broader audience
there.
SJ

If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think we
should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do something
with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially recognized
Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment. Transforming
the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called into a more
general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply putting in
practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the concerned
parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can express
confidently any worries they may have.

Just a thought, don't take this as a very strong position.

Best,
galio

[Asaf Bartov]

Post by Galileo Vidoni
If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think we
should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do something
with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially recognized
Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment. Transforming
the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called into a more
general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply putting in
practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the concerned
parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can express
confidently any worries they may have.

And a quick logistics note: there may be many people already in Haifa by the
time of the chapters meeting. We are not ready to accommodate all of them
at the venue that day.

Asaf

[Harel Cain]

I'll risk the chance of contradicting Asaf. Yes, there will be very many
people present in Haifa on the two days that precede Wikimania (August 2nd
and 3rd) and many of them will be at the venue. We'll make preparations to
accommodate all of them.

Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf -
we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to
participate and there will be nobody checking for chapter incorporation
certificate at the gates. It's all going to be very inclusive and welcoming
and not very strictly organized (referring to these days).

I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than at
the preconference.


Harel

Post by Asaf Bartov

Post by Galileo Vidoni
If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think
we should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do
something with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially
recognized Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment.
Transforming the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called
into a more general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply
putting in practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the
concerned parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can
express confidently any worries they may have.

And a quick logistics note: there may be many people already in Haifa by
the time of the chapters meeting. We are not ready to accommodate all of
them at the venue that day.
Asaf
--
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Samuel Klein]

Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf  -
we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to
participate

Great, thanks for clarifying.

I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than at
the preconference.

Yes. A short presentation followed later in the schedule by a
workshop for those interested, would be great. Motivation about why
this matters, and time to make something happen as a result.

I hope the presentation on the chapters day is primarily about a
charter, since that requires extensive buy-in from chapters. If we
don't have support from them before that day, we should either have it
afterwards, or have a clear list of concerns that need to be
addressed.

SJ

[Theo10011]

Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?


Theo

Post by Samuel Klein

Post by Harel Cain
Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf -
we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to
participate

Great, thanks for clarifying.

Post by Harel Cain
I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than

at

Post by Harel Cain
the preconference.

Yes. A short presentation followed later in the schedule by a
workshop for those interested, would be great. Motivation about why
this matters, and time to make something happen as a result.
I hope the presentation on the chapters day is primarily about a
charter, since that requires extensive buy-in from chapters. If we
don't have support from them before that day, we should either have it
afterwards, or have a clear list of concerns that need to be
addressed.
SJ
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles

[Samuel Klein]

Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall
schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or
workshop?

Post by Theo10011
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?

Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I
volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending
on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks
by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the
start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning
pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing
down to under a minute.

SJ

[Harel Cain]

As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the schedule,
I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main
conference, even without the "due process" of a submission.
However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only
realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.

Harel

Post by Samuel Klein
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall
schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or
workshop?

Post by Theo10011
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?

Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I
volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending
on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks
by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the
start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning
pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing
down to under a minute.
SJ

[Harel Cain]

Ah, the joys of being a benevolent dictator, I set aside a full 90 minute
slot on the first day for MR. Have a look here:
http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schedule
(you're more than welcome to comment on other aspects of the schedule as
well, apart from saying it's too crowded, which it is - we need more time).

I'm not sure I'll be able to defend 90 minutes for MR for a lot longer. So
prepare for the possibility you'll get fewer minutes.

At any rate, you (we?) need to prepare something for this slot. Who'll be
the main speaker?


Harel

Post by Harel Cain
As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the schedule,
I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main
conference, even without the "due process" of a submission.
However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only
realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.
Harel

Post by Samuel Klein
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall
schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or
workshop?

Post by Theo10011
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?

Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I
volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending
on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks
by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the
start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning
pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing
down to under a minute.
SJ

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

[Samuel Klein]

Lovely - thank you, Harel. I think we only need a short main-conf
presentation on the first day, as an intro to the process, and space
we can use for a more detailed workshop with those who are interested.
[if we have many people interested, that group could break out into
teams.] I can give an introduction. I would like to do something
like what we did at the chapconf where a small group of us who have
worked on different aspects of MR are all on stage to answer
questions.

Sam.

Post by Harel Cain
Ah, the joys of being a benevolent dictator, I set aside a full 90 minute
http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schedule
(you're more than welcome to comment on other aspects of the schedule as
well, apart from saying it's too crowded, which it is - we need more time).
I'm not sure I'll be able to defend 90 minutes for MR for a lot longer. So
prepare for the possibility you'll get fewer minutes.
At any rate, you (we?) need to prepare something for this slot. Who'll be
the main speaker?
Harel

Post by Harel Cain
As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the
schedule, I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main
conference, even without the "due process" of a submission.
However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only
realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.
Harel

Post by Samuel Klein
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall
schedule?  What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or
workshop?

Post by Theo10011
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?

Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline.  I
volunteer to write the abstracts.  MR is a diverse group -- depending
on the timing, a small panel would be nice.  Or a few lightning talks
by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the
start of our workshop.  By Wikimania, we should have our lightning
pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing
down to under a minute.
SJ

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.