Discussion:
About the roles matrix and being late
Delphine Ménard
2011-02-17 15:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I am a bit...well, disappointed as to how we're working (or rather,
not working).

I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually
finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it
everything I wanted to give it, here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix

I am however a bit stuck, for the following reasons, in no particular
order and with no particular "examples" but rather a general
"feeling".

1) time, I don't have as much time as I wished to do the stuff I'd like to do.

2) coordination: I'm lacking some transversal coordination, really. We
had an agenda, but we're way overdue on everything, and from my
window, no-one seems to be responsible for making this go forward. I
can't say that having someone remind us every other day what's
supposed to happen on a given day would have made me go faster, but
hey, it surely would have helped keep things in perspective. Right now
our only check points are IRC meetings, where only half the people can
make it, because of time constraints.

3) Commitment: I know working on such abstract things is difficult,
but when people commit to doing stuff, it'd be nice if they actually
did them. Whether they do them in time or not is another story, but
making sure not to promise things that actually _do not_ get done
would really make things much easier on everyone's motivation. If you
can't, well, you can't, but then, please don't commit. If you're going
to be late, say it (don't do like me and keep quiet while nothing
happens ;)). I you can't commit any more, say it also. So that people
don't wait on your part to start theirs or something.

4) Timely response and comments. I know, life is a wiki, and our work
is too (TM). But there is nothing worse than having people _within
this group_ react on things once they a) have been made public b)
have been agreed upon by all others or c) have been put forward for
comments for weeks and gotten no feedback. I wish we could, at least
within the group, stick to commenting "timeframes" or so, so as to
avoid talking with too many voices for a start. ie. when something
from the group gets out, it represents the group, and anyone who does
not agree should have either spoken up earlier, or shut up till the
end of time :) (or something).

Well, I guess that's about it for my afternoon rant.

I am a bit worried that our very agressive agenda until the Berlin
meeting was way too optimistic. At the same time, there isn't much
time left if we want to present something susceptible of getting
anywhere for Wikimania...

Anyway, I've kind of finished my first bit, but I am at a loss as to
how to present it in an email that captures attention and brings
contributions... Any help is appreciated.

Cheers,

Delphine
--
@notafish

NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org
Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
Jon Huggett
2011-02-17 16:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Delphine

This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow. Will you be there?

Cheers

Jon
Jon Huggett
+44-795-278-0688
+1-415-465-2700
jon-***@public.gmane.org
www.huggett.com
Skype jon.huggett
Post by Delphine Ménard
Hi all,
I am a bit...well, disappointed as to how we're working (or rather,
not working).
I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually
finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix
I am however a bit stuck, for the following reasons, in no particular
order and with no particular "examples" but rather a general
"feeling".
1) time, I don't have as much time as I wished to do the stuff I'd like to do.
2) coordination: I'm lacking some transversal coordination, really. We
had an agenda, but we're way overdue on everything, and from my
window, no-one seems to be responsible for making this go forward. I
can't say that having someone remind us every other day what's
supposed to happen on a given day would have made me go faster, but
hey, it surely would have helped keep things in perspective. Right now
our only check points are IRC meetings, where only half the people can
make it, because of time constraints.
3) Commitment: I know working on such abstract things is difficult,
but when people commit to doing stuff, it'd be nice if they actually
did them. Whether they do them in time or not is another story, but
making sure not to promise things that actually _do not_ get done
would really make things much easier on everyone's motivation. If you
can't, well, you can't, but then, please don't commit. If you're going
to be late, say it (don't do like me and keep quiet while nothing
happens ;)). I you can't commit any more, say it also. So that people
don't wait on your part to start theirs or something.
4) Timely response and comments. I know, life is a wiki, and our work
is too (TM). But there is nothing worse than having people _within
this group_ react on things once they a) have been made public b)
have been agreed upon by all others or c) have been put forward for
comments for weeks and gotten no feedback. I wish we could, at least
within the group, stick to commenting "timeframes" or so, so as to
avoid talking with too many voices for a start. ie. when something
from the group gets out, it represents the group, and anyone who does
not agree should have either spoken up earlier, or shut up till the
end of time :) (or something).
Well, I guess that's about it for my afternoon rant.
I am a bit worried that our very agressive agenda until the Berlin
meeting was way too optimistic. At the same time, there isn't much
time left if we want to present something susceptible of getting
anywhere for Wikimania...
Anyway, I've kind of finished my first bit, but I am at a loss as to
how to present it in an email that captures attention and brings
contributions... Any help is appreciated.
Cheers,
Delphine
--
@notafish
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org
Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Delphine Ménard
2011-02-17 16:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Huggett
Hi Delphine
This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow.  Will you be
there?
Yes, I will. :)

Delphine
--
@notafish

NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org
Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
Lodewijk
2011-02-17 21:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people
that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people
participating now as well on the mailing list.
From my side, I am not aware of any open commitments in this very time frame
(and that was planned that way, since we will have a WMNL strategy weekend
coming up and I am starting my internship this week). I would like Delphine
appreciate it if someone could keep the agenda and time planner and make
sure people stick to their promises or make sure someone else takes over. It
can happen that someone is not able to do something, but if that will take
too long, it would be nice if someone that has time could take over.

So, basically two requests:
1) could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon
and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time
frame?
2) could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something
we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that
you dont have time, then someone can take over.

Thanks,

Lodewijk
Post by Jon Huggett
Hi Delphine
This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow. Will you be there?
Yes, I will. :)
Delphine
--
@notafish
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive -
http://blog.notanendive.org
Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
_______________________________________________
Movementroles mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Bishakha Datta
2011-02-18 04:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lodewijk
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people
that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people
participating now as well on the mailing list.
Since I won't be on the IRC chat today I'll add in my comments on the
matrix tonight.
Post by Lodewijk
1) could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon
and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time
frame?
2) could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something
we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that
you dont have time, then someone can take over.
+1. Need reminders/pushing at this stage if we are to make our deadlines.

Since we are behind schedule, can the commitments/things to do before Berlin
also be re-looked at on the IRC chat - with revised deadlines if needed?

Bishakha
Austin Hair
2011-02-18 07:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lodewijk
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people
that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people
participating now as well on the mailing list.
[...]
Post by Lodewijk
1) could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon
and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time
frame?
Prodding people toward the wiki with weekly summaries and individual
IMs clearly hasn't been working, so I think you're right—more mailing
list participation, seen by everyone, might keep us all on our toes.
Post by Lodewijk
2) could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something
we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that
you dont have time, then someone can take over.
I don't think it's a matter of letting someone else take over—nobody
here has any more time or commitment than anyone else, apart from Jon
and me. The issue here is that, like so many other side projects
without a lot of activity, this is something that's easily pushed to
the background when confronted with "real life stuff." That's
understandable, but not solved by dumping your work on someone else
facing the same issues.

Austin
Bishakha Datta
2011-02-18 14:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Delphine Ménard
I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually
finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix
Just went through this - I think the introduction provides context to the
matrix really well, as do the primary comments and thoughts. One thought for
this latter section: should we add in a sub-section called Chapters and
anything about the difference between All chapters and Some chapters or is
it self-explanatory?

In the section, 'The Roles Matrix: Starting Point', a quick thought on the
third bullet point:

- introduces roles that did not come out of the brainstorming

Is there a way to flag these to the MR group so we could focus on these a
bit more? (No problem with it as such, just wondering what came later and
would rather not go through old and new matrix comparison to get this)

All in all, I think this is off to a good start post Frankfurt - I notice
there are some comments on the talk page too. Questions for the IRC chat or
for this list: what is our goal for this matrix? how complete or specific do
we think it is? what more does it need? what is our plan for completion?

Cheers and many thanks for this huge, productive effort!
Bishakha

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